So Slowly

It’s my blog, I get to bitch.

This is going so slowly

I’m not sure I can stand it. I want her to look at the list of things to do. I want this to be happening. I want to get beyond having had a discussion about what might happen. I want to do this and work out the details with her.

I get to want.

Phew. Feels much better having vented since there’s nobody I can tell.

Seriously, though, I’ve had a headache on-and-off all day, and a little stress twitch. This part is difficult.

And now I get to be patient and quiet and let this little flower grow on its own.

Everything has changed, and nothing has changed

She said, “How would we have such a discussion?”

I thought for a minute and said, “I really don’t want you to be anyone other than who you are. But I think there area ideas about communications in this book that we should talk about.”

I reviewed the salient points of the book and we talked for an hour. It was great.

The following is really an aide-de-memoir for me, so you might not find it interesting. You might want to skip to the bottom with the impassioned exchange of vows (sort of).

Key points I’m trying to remember:

My beloved’s comment about outside organizations was far more practical than I had realized. It wasn’t about “What if I wanted you to get rid of your outside commitments,” it was “How can you claim to be at my disposal when you have outside commitments. It’s all very good for you to work on the garden all afternoon, but if you had phone calls to make, how would that have worked?”

That kind of stumped me. We talked around it but didn’t come to a conclusion. I suggested two possibilities, one much better than the other: She’s a list person, so I could add my outside commitments to her “to do list” and she could prioritize – not preferable since it’s more work for her. Or I coudl tell her what I need to do, ask her for time to do them, with enough time ahead that she could say “No” now, and still have there be time to ask another time.

She asked, “So am I not supposed to say ‘Thank you’ any more? Hows that going to look to the kids? It doesn’t seem like ‘the woman in the book’ says thank you to her husband.” I said that while *I* love that kind of verbal discipline for myself, and view it as a kind of a mindfulness practice, I didn’t think it made any sense for her because it’s not who she is. Sure, I love it when the dynamic is, “The work you did on the garden makes me happy” and I reply, “Thank you for the opportunity to do it.” But given who she is, I’m just as happy with “Thanks for working on the garden,” “My pleasure.”

Similarly, telling me to do stuff versus asking, partly for how it looks in front of others, and partly because of who she is. I don’t think it’s ever going to be natural for her to say “Get me a glass of water” – shes much more a “Could you get me a glass of water please” type person. I did tell her that my fantasy was to be able to respond with “As you wish” – a movie quote that says to us, “I love you.”

Which led her to ask about what happens in public? Her question: suppose I want you to do something and there’s some reason it’s not a good idea or you can’t. HOw do we have that conversation in public. She was thinking (she said), that we need to turn this on and off depending on the circumstances. Even as she was saying it, she realized that this wasn’t necessarily so.

I introduced the idea (not explicitly) of the “vote and a half” – that it’s my responsibility to give her the best counsel and judgment on a situation, and then it’s her choice as to what happens. It’s not like I turn into a brainless twit, just that once she has the information, she gets to decide. Concrete example: the car needs work. I take it to the shop, get the estimate, come up with a fix/don’t fix decision, and make a recommendation. Her choices (after as much back-and-forth as she needs to feel comfortable, is to say “OK, go with your plan”, or “I don’t care, I hate the damn car, we’re getting a new one.” End of discussion.

I did say that I could think of a phrase we could use in pubic to say, “I’ll do this, but there’s a reason why I don’t think it’s what I think I should do” rather than disagree with her in public (we disagree, we seldom – though not never – argue), which is “Would this make you happy?” Indicating that I’m doing it just because she says so, not because I think it’s a good idea. I really told her that I didn’t explect to need to use it, though.

We talked over the idea of “routines” and decided that they probably would work for us. But, she noted, “stupid things like laying our my nightgown do nothing for me.” “Dang,” I said. “I saw you struggling with your nightgown and figured it would be convenient.” “Nope,” she said, “If it has kink value for you, then I don’t care”, to which I responded, “The only value it has for me is if it’s convenient for you.” Which just goes to show how important communication really is.

She said, “Sheesh, the only routine things I can think of for you to do are boring, like sorting the credit card receipts.” I went “Perfect! It’s not the thing, it’s knowing that you need the thing done.” I’m not sure she believed me but it sounds like she’s willing see if I mean it.

We talked a lot about my making a list and her sorting it in to the “A” (That would be helpful), “B” (Doesn’t do anything for her but possible gift for me) and “C” (Wouldn’t be caught dead doing that) categories. I realize that we need another cateogry, “D”, which is “Doesn’t do anything for me *AND* doesn’t make her life easier, so forget it.” The nightgown goes in that category.) So that’s my job today over lunch.

I commented that Ms. Rika’s suggestion for what to do when this isn’t working is key: “Don’t touch my stuff, don’t do any of this, it’s not working and you made a commitment you’re not fulfilling” is far more effective than any “rewards” system or punishment system. It means that this is about us and our relationship, not my trying to get rewards. The punishment piece I think stems from subs wanting to say “Are we still doing this, do you still care?” In the spirit of communications, I suggested that I just ask, “Are we still doing this, do you still care?” but that in the context of all the other communications – “Thank you for letting me serve you” and most important, a check in that says “Is this working? Have I been disappointing? Is this really making your life easier?” would be what I would need. In this regard, I think I/we differ a little from the approach Ms. Rika advocates, since if it’s about communications, I need to be able communicate and ask. As I’ve mentioned other places, asking is really important to me. It’s what’s led me to be able to ask for this.

This is probably the most important yet most subtle and difficult part. Many years ago, when we were taking another run at this, after a long conversation not entirely different from this one, but far less informed by experience, and not informed by Ms. Rika’s excelent advice, she asked, “How would today have been different if we had been doing this?” It’s a question I’ve thought about a lot since then. And the answer is encapsulated in Ms. Rika’s “Accepted from a position of dominance” suggestion. But she asked, “What does that mean for me (herself)?” I said I thought for us it was my ability to ask, “Are we doing this, is this working.” OBviously not every five minutes to pester, but to get the sense of psychic satisfaction – to get that itch scratched – that is the point of the whole thing.

[As an aside to all this, I mentioned that I realized that that’s what asking to take off the necklace for sexual satisfaction is all about. It’s not like I want her to say “Yes” or “No”, but that I want to have the conversation. Obviously, there have to be some “No”s, or asking is pointless. But it’s more about the conversation than the specific answer.]

She pointed out that we need a way to ratchet this up and down if my previous history of being more or less interested in this over time proves to be consistent. I meant to say (but the converastion wandered) that I didn’t think this would be so, just as how doing the necklace/sexual satisfacton thing has been very consistent. Doing something at a sustainable level eliminates these huge swings in interest.

So how did we leave it?

I’m going to make up the list.
She’s going to sort it in to A’s, B’s, C’s, (and D’s)
Until we end up with a list of routines, her “requests” are what I do.

The impassioned vows part:

I am doing this not because all women are superior or because you’re superior to me, but because I want to. I want to serve you, to make your life easier. I will work as hard as I can to get this right. I love you for who you are, and don’t want you to change.

She said, “I’m doing this because I love you and I want you to be happy.”

At least that’s all I remember….

So this morning, I mentioned that I have a committee meeting this evening and she was a little exasperated. I’m really going to have to figure out how to get that right.

Tantalizing and frustrating

I asked my beloved this afternoon whether we were going to have a chance to have a conversation about Ms. Rika’s book today. She said, “Depending on how the rest of the day schedules out, but certainly not before dinner.” I said, “I’m glad I asked. If we don’t manage it today, I’d like to do it soon.” And indeed, if we don’t manage it today, I am going to try to schedule it with her for as soon as we can this week.

So one of the things I hate most in this world is gardening. But my beloved and I are clearly poking around service submission, without saying so in quite so many words. Although more words got said today.

She said that some gardening chores needed to be done, and I had a question to ask about them, so I asked her. As we were walking in, she said, “So, are you doing what you want to do, or rather, what you don’t like doing?” – sort of joking as if wonder the right way to put it. I said, “If it’s what you want done, then it’s what I want to do.”

A couple of minutes later, she said, “I think picking the book you did was the best possible choice. I really like the emphasis on ‘fundamental relationship’ and on communications. Of all the books out there, I can’t imagine a better approach.” I was thrilled. Then she said, “If we really do this, you’re not going to have much time. We’ve structured our lives so that we do a lot of ourside activities: committees, boards, etc. Are you going to have time to do that? How’s that going to work?” I started to answer, and she said, “I just want you to think about it for when we have this discussion.”

So am I on cloud nine or what? I did do four more hours of gardening after that, and was happy, so as not to say aroused, the whole time.

But now it’s late, there’s kid homework to be done, and I somehow doubt our conversation will happen today.

This patience business is very hard. But I’m managing.

I don’t know how long I can do the “service submission” thing without an arrangement in place – without the “Acceptance from a position of dominance,” but I’m sure as heck trying.

Very Small Pleasures

My beloved got home from her event last night, laptop bag in hand. After the customary chit-chat, she was on the couch reading a magazine, and I realized that her bag was still in the hall. I just picked it up and was going to get her computer set up at the base station and upack the bag. As I was walking by with it, she said “Could you get that connected up for me?”

s‘s comment that one shouldn’t necessarily read too much in these things is a good caution, but after 25 years together, I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t have said that a month ago. But I could be wrong.

I was thrilled. Poking around in the bag, I found three other things that needed to be put away and just went about doing that. Honestly, I was aroused the whole time, which I found a little surprising and embarassing, but quite satisfying as well. I did have to ask one question about where she wanted an item. I really try not to do that, because it screams out “Look at me, I’m doing this stuff and you have to tell me the details”. But having been told once, I now know where she prefers it.

I’ve really been trying to find things that will just make her life easier; this morning she was talking about all the things that need to get done this weekend. I saw one that I could do and just casually said,

“I could do that while I’m doing this other thing. How many?”

“Five…,” she said

“And what do I say when they ask what kind, and stuff?”

“I don’t know, so just decide.”

Done.

This could be very very satisfying.

There will be a conversation this weekend. I kind of wonder if she’s “trying some of this out” before such a conversation, and I will very much have Ms. Rika‘s comment in mind about really having this be about what will work for her.

I perhaps depart from her counsel when I think there does need to be some conversation about why we’re doing this and what I need from it; I don’t think I’m a perfect enough “service submissive” (in her terms) to let the wind blow where it may on that. Maybe I haven’t fully internalized this “D/s paradox contradiction” thing, but if it wasn’t for what I need, we wouldn’t be doing any of this. My beloved would be happier if she could just snap her fingers and have this go away. As, perhaps, would I.

But many many years of wrestling with it, in therapy and out, in deep spiritual practice and out, has convinced me that that’s not going to happen – the only way out of this one is through. So we are doing this “for” me, and she’s embarking on this because she loves me and wants me to be happy – something that only emerged explicitly in this context, when we talked about it. So I suspect she’ll ask, and I’d better have an answer that’s as close to the truth as I can determine.

And that answer is not, “I’ll be happy if you do this to me” or “I’ll be happy if I have to do that for you.” That answer has a lot to do with the relationship between us, her expectations of me, my ability to fulfill those expectations, her acknowledgement of those expectations, and some way that those expectations are communicated back to me. At least thats as close as I can figure out right now.

But I am going to tread really softly on that, more softly than I would have without Ms. Rika’s admonition. And always uppermost:

• It’s about me working for her
• It’s not about her being anyone other than who she is

Maybe along with “Softly, softly…” it’s “In very small increments.”

Right now, in standing routines, it’s just

• Coffee
• Laying out her nightgown
• Finding and plugging in her cell phone
• Making sure the light is on on her side of the bed

Everything else is whatever I can figure out in the moment.

Perhaps in our conversation, we’ll come up with some other things to add to this list.

Softly… Softly…

I don’t remember the reference, but it’s to how to proceed, and in this case, it’s apt.

Ms. Rika’s advice, though hard to hear, is by-and-large, on the mark.

My beloved arrived home last night, and in the hurly burly of life with kids, not a word by her or me about books or relationships. I did see the book appear on my side of the nightstand. And I enjoyed helping her out with her luggage.

We did a little snuggling in bed, very much in the way things go at night, when she decides how much intimacy she wants – in this case we were both (I think) too tired. So it was just pleasant. She’s remarked that sometimes when she can’t sleep, she wonders, “Will a little sex help me relax and sleep” and if so, she gets some. I love it, but as I said, I think last night, lassitude won out.

This morning in the hurly burly of getting kids (and husband) out the door she said, “Rub my shoulder right here; it hurts, I think I did something to it.” So I did while all sorts of other conversations swirled around. Nothing unusual about that in our house, and I’d have asked her to do the same if the situation was reversed. Except that I swear she would have said “Could you please …” in the past.

I would never never ask her for that kind of syntactic distinction; as I said, it drives her nuts (at least I think it does). But my little heart did go pitter-pat when she said it, and it was very fun.

We just had lunch, and at the end of a long pleasant w
alk about town, I said, “Can we set a time to talk about ‘this, book and all?'” I said something about needing to know that it was going to happen, by which I meant the conversation, but she interpreted as moving ahead on some version of submission. I only realized this when I interpreted her response, which was “If it wasn’t going to happen, I’d have told you by now.” “Oh, I thought, you meant some arrangement.” So I said, “I just need to know the conversation is going to happen some time, so if we can set a time, that would set my mind at ease.” In the end, we didn’t set a time, but I think the conversation is going to happen (though not tonight – she has one of her few “fun” night-out commitments (at least it’s fun most of the time…))

The suspense is killing me

Spoke briefly to my beloved last night though she’s still out of town. In the midst of all the quotidian conversation, she say “I read your book.” I can’t say as how she sounded two enthusiastic about it.

I said, “I’m thinking we should just talk about it section by section to see what seems relevant.” She agreed that that seemed like a good idea. I also mentioned that I think I’m more excited about having the conversation than about the subject of the book itself – it’s like not having to drag this enormous weight around anymore.

For the past three days, I’ve been on tenterhooks trying to figure out what it is I want. I know I’ve blogged about this in the past, but it is surprisingly difficult to figure out.

Starting from what’s in Ms. Rika’s book:

– I do want to serve her. From our conversation some time ago, each of those little service things says “I love you” and that’s the message I want to send, over and over again during the day. Who’da thunk that after more than 20 years of married life, it would still be important, but it is to me.

– I need her to acknowledge that service. This is one of the key insights from Ms. Rika’s book that I had never been able to put in so succinct a form.

So far, there’s nothing “power exchange-y” or “wife-led marriage-y” about that arrangment. So what I’m trying to do is define for us, for me, what is the additional element that makes this work, that gives this zing, that makes it scratch that submissive itch. I don’t have Ms. Rika’s book with me now, so I can’t comb through it looking for her take on that, but it strikes me as a key point. Here’s what I think:

Her acknowledgment of that service has to go beyond “Gee, thanks for doing that, honey.” To be candid, Ms. Rika does point that out that the woman can acknowledge service without thanking explicitly, thus reinforcing the “power exchange” portion of the relationship. For example, “The kitchen looks clean” rather than “Thanks for doing the dishes”, which elicits from the man, “Thanks for letting me do that” (I’d add, “I love you” just to make it explicit) rather than “Your welcome.”

I love that kind of discipline in speech, even though it’s hard; as I said, I’m still working on “May I …. ” rather than “Would you like me to…” but I am working on it. But I think it would drive my beloved crazy (maybe I’m wrong).

I have a hard time getting away from desiring that there be a lack of choice on my part in doing these things – not a coercion based on sexual denial or rewards, but an acknowledgment that I *have* to do these things based on the agreement we have made. So what is that (right now, hypothetical) agreement?

A long long time ago, I had some chores to do (in a D/s context, when we were taking another run at this). I defined it as there being a “barrier to intimacy” until those chores were done. I think that’s close to the mark, but doesn’t work if the context of the service is “all the time.” But there’s something in that.

I honestly don’t know what the answer is here, and while part of me wants to say “Let it emerge from the discussion”, another part says “She’s going to ask, ‘what do you need, what works for you?’, since if it was up to her, we wouldn’t be doing this at all.” And then I need an answer at least to start a discussion.

Here are two possibilities, neither perfect:

1) Whenever I do something that I wouldn’t otherwise have done, I have the opportunity to find my beloved and thank her for the opportunity to serve. Scratches my itch, doesn’t require initiative from her (though a nice response would be nice), and if I don’t overdo it, shouldn’t be overly annoying.

2) A nightly check in. Assuming she wouldn’t come to dread this, it would foster communication, which is key for me. And it would give me an opportunity to assess how I was doing service-wise, and her an opportunity to provide feedback.

My final dread is that she’ll say, “I’ve been doing all this crap for years, and now you want to do it and get credit for it?” This is a little unrealistic, since we share a lot of work now – our basic egalitarian approach to life is one of the barriers for her in thinking about this whole arrangement. So this doesn’t apply to dishes (which I do anyway), but to things she’s been doing that she doesn’t particularly like, like laundry and some aspects of our home business.

My fantasies have a habit of getting away from me, but I can think of one that addresses this issue. That would be for me to have to ask explicitly for “down time” (perhaps not more than once an hour or twice an evening, or once an evening). If she says “No” for whatever reason, I’m supposed to be on task working for her.

Enough food for thought. I think I’ve broken my “What do you want” log jam enough to have a conversation, which I dearly hope will happen tonight.

Inch by Inch, Step by Step, Nearer and Nearer…

So as my beloved is packing for her business trip this week, she asked, “Are you going to make me a cup of coffee tomorrow morning so I can leave at 5:30?” To which I replied, “I’d love to…” I was, in fact, thrilled.

As you might have gathered from the “tidbits” below, I’ve already started doing some of the things that I think would be a part of service oriented submission, and we have talked about some of them. Significantly though, we haven’t discussed the acknowledgment of why I’m doing this and why she’s accepting it, a thing that Ms. Rika points out is vital to do.

A little later, with some trepidation, I asked, “So, are you going to bring that book with you?” To which she replied, “I’ve already started to read it” and proceeded to finish it.

I’m *really* looking forward to this discussion when she gets home.

Tidbits

Enough with the long posts – I keep the stuff rolling around in my head until it turns in to a huge manifesto – not useful. So, a new resolve to post when the though occurs, and these tidbits:

• My beloved was out gardening, her favorite thing. I thought I might score the treat of washing her feet when she came in for a shower, but she came in an “crashed” instead. I read on the couch beside her until I realized I wanted to go for a run. I told her I’d love to take a shower with her when I got back. When I got back I feared she had taken a shower without me, which would certainly have been her prerogative, but would have implicitly said she had denied me my treat. But she hadn’t; she’d returned to gardening and now we’re off to shower.
• Some days ago we were busy doing stuff in the evenings when one of our kids turned on a movie. Rather than continuing to work (as is her wont), she said, “You know, I don’t have to work all the time. I’m going to watch the movie.” I said “Keep that thought!” But it is indicative of her attitude towards always being useful doing stuff, which I fear will make this “service submission” idea difficult.
• I’m really trying to phrase things as “Can I do X” rather than “Would you like me to do X”. I believe that words are important and phrasing it as what I would like to do makes it clear for whom we’re doing this, and removes the onus from her of having to, even implicitly, ask me to do something.
• I’m also trying to thank her for letting me do stuff. I just got to wash her back, her feet, and shave her legs. Do I feel lucky or what? “Thanks” and “I love you” were my two responses.
• I’m getting better at taking the “Could you….” or “If you remember, you could …” suggestions as mandates. Knowing my beloved as I do, she’s never going to be the “Get me a cup of tea now” type person. So it’s important to listen to what she wants in the way that she is comfortable saying it.

Stuck at the brink.

So here it is Sunday again – how time flies. Why has nothing happened? Well, a little has – I finished Uniquely Rika, and passed it along to my beloved. She suggested that summary of each chapter might be a bit much since we’re going to talk about it anyway. So I just commented that the first half seemed to have much more immediate relevance to us than the second half, and passed the book along to her side of the bed. She mentioned that she had read the introduction. I said that while I wasn’t at a place where I wanted to follow each of Ms. Rika’s prescriptions as if they were canon, I thought there was a great deal in there to talk about.

One thing led to another – her parents came to visit unexpectedly this weekend, and we haven’t had a chance to talk at all.

Also, we did have rather mind-blowing sex on Wednesday, which always lowers my motivation to talk about this stuff. While I’m not going to turn this in to a sex blog, I only get release about 1/3 or 1/2 of the time when we are intimate, as was the case last weekend. And I only can stand not getting release for two or three days after that, until I ask her if I may satisfy myself – to which she pretty much always say yes, somewhat to my disappointment. (When I thanked her for this arrangement some weeks ago and told her I loved her, her reply was “I don’t seem to love you so much that I’ll say ‘No’, which is what you want.” I reassured her that whatever her choice was would be perfect, and I’m really working towards that.)

This whole dynamic is not 100% successful, but it works pretty well for us. So, having satisfied myself in the morning, I was a little surprised when she initiated intimacy in the evening, and a little more so when she asked me for PIV intercourse. But like I said, it was excellently draining and intimate.

That all notwithstanding, there’s been a deeper question bothering me: A long time ago when my beloved and I were taking another run at this same issue, she asked (at the end of a long car ride), “What would be different today if you had been my slave?” (the terms we were using at the time). I was at a loss.

Ms. Rika points out that what is important for the submissive is the intent of dominance from which the dominant accepts service. So just “doing stuff” is not enough for there to be submission, nor would be my beloved’s allowing me to “do stuff” for here be sufficient. She needs to accept the stuff that I do from a position of dominance. Now, if I understood Ms. Rika correctly, this isn’t a quid-pro-quo, but the establishment of the relationship: I’m doing these things for you because I want to/must; you acknowledge that I’m doing these things for you because we’ve established that this is the way we want our relationship to work: I do stuff for you, you accept and acknowledge the stuff that I do.

So back when my beloved asked me, “What would have been different today…”, I think I now realize that the answer is the understanding and her intent. I do go out of my way every day to make her coffee, plug in her cell phone, lay our her nightgown, and turn on her bedside light – the only things we’ve identified that work for her.

I do need her to acknowledge every day that I do these things for her. A month or two ago, after a discussion about our arrangement with the necklace and my sexual satisfaction, I suggested that I have the opportunity to mention to her each day how much this arrangement means to me, the “I’m happiest when she controls my sexual release,” and that she allow me to thank her for that. Somehow, we never got the words right, but I do believe that what’s most important to me about this is the interaction with her, an the acknowledgment that there are things I do for her, and that she’s “in charge” in some way.

As I wrote at the end of Standing at the Brink, a ritual that allows me to know this without being burdensome for her would be perfect. I don’t know if this “arriving home” one is it, but I hope there is something we can work out.

What I need to be able to tell her is that I like sitting at her feet when we watch a movie or are sitting around. And I need to find out which of these things are not obtrusive or oppressive for her.

So where are we now? Stuck at the brink. Waiting for her to read “Uniquely Rika” (which I’ll ask her to do again today), and for us to have a conversation about it, and to find what works for us.

My fear: that she’ll say “I hate this stuff and I just can’t do it.”

My other fear: That I’m looking for something that I’ll never find, and that this is just a vain attempt to scratch an itch which can’t be scratched this way.

But I don’t think there’s anyway to confront or resolve those fears without just trying this, with the awareness of those things.